Conversation with a Nazi

Since childhood I’ve only heard Hitler and his Nazi regime referred to anytime someone did something horrendous. I’ve read Anne Frank’s Diary, and A Man’s Search for Meaning, by Viktor Frankl. I’ve read the American Version of who Hitler was, and though I took away the fact that he committed genocide, I never fully understood his motives. Who was the man with the god-awful mustache and his incessant need to hail with his arm and hand pointed out like an arrow? Questions that i might never have sought to answer had life not put one of his followers in my path.

In 2008 I met Orin, a Nazi, who redefined my perception of the National Socialist German Workers Party (Nazis). Time and circumstances has made us friends, even if our views don’t coincide in every way. The following dialogue—one of many—has led me to question the history I was taught.

Sitting at a popular bar in Rio de Janeiro, the humid, sugar and spice infused air made me thirsty as I waited for my friend to arrive. I hadn’t spoken to Orin in Several months, and I wasn’t too surprised by his tardiness. The laid back lifestyle of Brazil had long ago given him a different perception of time. But when he walked in he stood out like an American in China. His blue eyes, fair skin, and unfortunate bald head made me laugh just seeing him.

I had sent him a message, saying that I would be in the area, and that I wanted to base one of my supporting characters in my upcoming novels, Broken Oaths, on him. To do so, effectively, I needed to better understand his association with Nazism, so as to better define his fictional double. You see, this man is no hate monger, he seems to get along with everyone...basically he doesn’t fit into the Nazi stereotypes that years of Western indoctrination have taught me.

“Orin, my friend, good of you to make it,” I said as he slid into the barstool at my right. He was dressed in dark slacks and a white dress shirt—an outright contradiction to the sand and surf no more tan forty meter from where we sat. “I though you might’ve mistaken the day.”

“Gin and Tonic,” he said to the bright-eyed black woman who came to take his order. Then to me he slapped me on the back of my neck; a greeting I hated, which he knew, but I think we both appreciated the spite. “I said I’d be here.”

“You also said you planned to be in Ireland by this time of year,” I pointed out. 

“Yeah well, probably next year.”

I smiled, having a good idea of what might have kept him from traveling the Atlantic. “What’s her name?”

Orin laughed. “Is it that obvious?”

“Yeah.”

“Later...your message said that you wanted to know about Nazism. Why?”

“I’m putting you in my next novel,” I reminded. He raised an eyebrow as I adjusted the digital recorder sitting between us like a third party. “With or without your permission, so I figured you might want to have some input!”

“Okay, what is it you wanna know?”

“I guess, why are you a Nazi...I mean, you’re living now in this cornucopia society of sorts and I don’t perceive you as being a rascist, or else we probably wouldn’t be friends.”

“I am a racist, and so are you, and so are most people.” I took a sip of my iced tea, so as to try and wash down the stiffness of his words. “It’s perfectly natural to prefer being around people who look like you.”

“Yeah, but I wouldn’t say I’m a rascist.”

“Oh no? Why then did you choose to make Mexico your home over say Arizona or New York, other places you’ve lived?”

“Because—”

“Because you prefer the Spanish/Mexican culture over the British/American culture.” he interrupted. “You prefer speaking Spanish over English...you prefer the latino races over the Anglo race, right?”

“That’s true enough. But I don’t hate other races. I wouldn’t try to extinguish another race just because I ‘prefer’ one culture over another.”

“Don’t be so sure about that,” Orin warned. “You might do any number of things given the right circumstances. Never say never.

So you’re saying that Hitler was forced by circumstance to do what he did?” I preferred.

“In the early 1920s Hitler was the seventh inductee in the N.S.D.A.P (National Socialist german Workers Party). History followed. He quickly rose to leadership, was persecuted, sent to prison, released, elected chancellor, abolished parliament, and instituted national socialism. ‘Nazi’ was actually a derogatory term coined by Western media, [but] they never called themselves that. I’m not suggesting you not use it. Of course, you want to use language your readers understand.

“N.S. is a political orientation. In the sense that democracy, communism, fascism is a political outlook. It’s the political and economical structure of the nation. In the personal it’s an outlook on life. Just [as] the Red Communist defines himself as such, so does a N.S. It is not distinctly German or even European. Put together, those two words (National Socialism) attract quite a bit of hostility than the singular aspects which can be found all over the world. Nationalism and Socialism can be found within different types of government, amongst different cultures and people, everywhere. After all, the nature of government is that the many are led by the few. You can’t paint that picture in very many varying ways.

“German N.S. was very ethnocentric, but all the true nationalism is (i.e. Irish, Chinese, Mexican, etc.) and is indifferent to so-called borders or man-made lines in the dirt. The intent in Germany at that time was to create a homogeneous homeland where german culture, language and ethnicity could propagate under the N.S. institution—eventually encompassing all of Europe and [its] folk. All of Europe.”

When he came up for a breath I said, “The Spaniards, upon arriving in New Spain weren’t too thrilled by the idea of mixing their blood with the natives.

 They made slaves out of many of them...”

They killed many of them,” Orin pointed out. “And if right now we were in the 16th century, in Mexico, you would be a second-rate citizen.”

“Probably so, I admitted. “But the way, when I think Nazi, I think German. But I’ve heard you tell me before that you’re Irish. You mentioned, that German National Socialism was striving for a ‘homogeneous homeland where German culture, language, and ethnicity could propagate...’ And yet, I’ve read that there were many Dutch, more than any other nationality, who joined the German’s.”

Orin’s head twitched several times in its usual and disconcerting way. “You’re right about the Dutch. More Dutchmen per capita joined the Germans than any other nationality. They had their own division—SS Nordland.”

“So obviously this wasn’t just about Germans, but rather a European stock,” I said.

“In a way,” Orin replied. “I say I’m Irish because much of my family comes from that island. I have the look and mannerism ❲s❳ of those people, the language and culture speaks to my heart like no other, but I’m as much ‘Irish’ as you are Spanish or Aztec or Toltec, or the dozens of other tribes of folk who genetically make up the Mexican people. There are very few people on the earth who aren’t a genetic cauldron of different tribes (and those unique examples are a few tribes on this continent to our west who have been isolated throughout history).

“Europeans have a common origin and this is the same for the linguistics and culture. English is a Germanic language. The word itself: English—Anglo, comes from Angles, a tribe of Germans invading across the channel in the 5th century. French was first German Franks, and Scots were of the Irish Scott. Europe is and always has been just a hotchpotch of Aryan clans vying against one another for living space. I can trace myself to all parts of it. Mostly Ireland, but also Scotland, England, Wales, Germany, Holland, Sweden...that I’ve heard of.”

“Israel,” I added with a smirk, as I signaled to the bartender for a refill.

“I’m sure there’s Jewish back there as well. many Europeans do, as they were a common people throughout the continent, for centuries. Hitler was an example of this social flux. He was born in Austria but spoke German—culturally Germanic. The Jewish author Shirer speculates that he was part Jewish. That may be true, or propaganda; wouldn’t surprise me either way. Actually, the vast majority of Jewish people today are Eastern European converts, and have no ancestral relation to Hebrews.

“His [Hitler] aim was to create a N.S. Europe and in fact he had much support all over the occidental—in England and the U.S. His vision was homogeneous, but at the time his racialist views were hardly unique. At the time, complete segregation—well, economic and political segregation—were enforced in the United States [and Mexico]. Britain was still an empire that subjugated people all over the world. The Japanese were expanding their very hungry empire under the premise of their very brutal ideas of racial supremacy.

“is it true, I interrupted,” that Japan killed far more Chinese in World War II than Hitler, Jews?”

Orin nodded, sipping his second Grey Goose cocktail. “A fact little appreciated anywhere in the world.”

“Except maybe in China.”

“Exactly. You see, the political conflicts in Europe, at that time, had nothing to do with race—other than the age-old Jewish financing, and thus profiting of Europe’s fratricidal wars. Remember, Germany invaded both Denmark and Norway—both countries inhabited by people who are probably more ‘Aryan’ than Germans. All of his allies were people of various colors: Iran, Turkey, Japan, Italy, Spain, Peru, Argentina, to name a few. Most of latin America, Latin Europe, Africa, the middle East, and some of the Orient sympathized with the ‘Axis of Evil.’

“So, N.S. is ideology and outlook. It’s not something that is specifically German. All the emphasis was placed on Germany and the German people, as he believed Germany to be the ‘fatherland’ of European culture, but Aryan is a very brood anthropological term. Words like German, Irish, Caucasian, European don’t define a folk. Those are just derivatives of geographical place. While is a color—”

“It’s the absence of color, I think,” I quipped.

“Right. Aryan is genetic physiognomy. It is the DNA of one of the many sub-genus of humankind. And it is not about color. There are Aryans of light, medium, and dark skin complexions. There are Chinese ranging from yellowish skin to pure white. Negroes can range from [the] darkest black skin to brown, tan, and in some cases, pure white albino Negroes. Indians (or, as they were called in ancient times—Toltecs) can range from reddish skin, to tan white, to darkest black. Ideas, culture, history, or even politics shared by a German and Irishman [are] about the same as the relationships between the Navaho and Apache, the Nicaraguan and Honduran, the Kenyan and Tanzanian, or any other groups of people who share ethno-genetic dispositions.

“In Ireland politics has always been about anti-colonialism and Republicanism. They’ve lived in a bubble for so long—under the heel of British oppression—that I doubt many Irishman have ever given much consideration to the Aryan collective, or N.S. Though, Republican ideals are very nationalistic, and they are very socialistic. But rather than earn the world’s enmity for aggression they’ve earned our sympathy for their struggles to survive and persevere.

“ ‘Nazism’ today exist ❲s❳ in all parts of Europe—or rather, its ghosts. Most of the time it’s ignorant kids, feeling angry and alienated in over-populated societies, lacking any kind of purpose, direction or influence, and lashing out at immigrants. A lot of the time the Jewish media will create it. Some Frenchman will lose his job to a Pakistani immigrant, he spins out, and all over the papers he’s a ‘Nazi.’ But that scene is big in Russia, East Germany, France—not so much in Ireland, for previous stated reasons, but it’s there, especially in the north amongst loyalist kids who emulate English pop-culture. It’s big in England where it began. The whole working class, neo-nazi scene, started there. The skinhead thing, the music, all of that—English. Most of these kids can’t define the word or explain what N.S. is, but with the media’s help they equate it with their own xenophobia—which tends to be a natural human reaction to any migratory clash of culture and people.”

“Hence, that new law in Arizona, allowing police to racial profile,” I added.

“Precisely. Also, as I’ve mentioned before, much of the symbology that’s representative of Aryan culture has become synonymous with ‘Nazism,’ as well.

“But Hitler had a very extreme aversion, to put it lightly, to dealing with a migratory or cultural clash,” I said.

“True Hitler had a very controversial view on race. Inflammatory to many people today. But they were hardly unique at the time...but we tend to forget that in our judgements of history. Hitler and I have very different views of the world, as our experiences are extraordinarily different. Although, I take him at his word, I recall that he was speaking to an audience, speaking hyperbole to an impoverished, defeated, down-trodden people who needed someone to tell them they were the best at everything they did, and were capable of anything. Telling the Germans they were supermen certainly worked for him. In a few short years, he brought them out of the worst depression an occidental nation has ever seen, into one of the most efficient. Democratic ailments like homelessness, food shortages, unemployment, [and] welfare, were all non-existent.

“Also, the social world moves, with everything else, in cycles. The start of the 20th century saw the peak of the last era. One that gave Europeans [a] rise in global influence and power. It was normal for them to perceive that sense of self after their achievement of the previous several centuries. But, such racial arrogance is nothing new to history, nor is it unique to Europe or any other part of the Earth. It’s a universal trait if there ever was one.Ideas of ethnic-preservation are a product of a biological inferiority complex. Prior to the 20th century, when Europeans—or Aryans, rather—comprised nearly half the population of the planet you never heard of it, but it was a very common notion amongst all the dwindling sub-races. I think what made Hitlers ideas and concepts different from a myriad of other thinkers was he attacked with all his attention a very powerful and influential group, or tribe, of bankers and merchants...”

I didn’t tell him this at the time, though I imagine he’ll read this eventually, and either be annoyed or amused...His character in my upcoming novel Broken Oaths is that of a convict. Yes, the irony is thick.